Anything about progress is a good post to make. Who cares if it's not as much, it's still progress :3
SheyGrell
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A member registered Sep 05, 2019
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Devlog - 46 [Question Inside] comments · Replied to Apapappa in Devlog - 46 [Question Inside] comments
Hopefully it's not too late to add some suggestions;
- Something involving an AI going weird.
- Something that can possess creatures or corpses.
- Something that evokes the terror of either the deep sea or the furthest of underground caverns (ie; Something big... Very big, and very far down).
- Something that gives foreshadowing by stalking you between rocks in the background. Or wherever.
Anything else I think of... Eh. I dunno.
I'm still yet to check out what's new, so right now I can only say that no demo is perfectly fair enough. I know how much of a deviation that sort of thing can be, and with coding... I don't even wanna think about how long that'll take x.x The full game is something to look forward to in the future.
Keep going! You can do it! Words of encouragement go here! :D
First off, I just want to say I'm really, really sorry for being silent for so long. I've been... Well, it's been an insane time for all. Let's just say that.
I don't want you to get the impression that I'm offended or anything. This is kind of a reason why I leave large amounts of info in one comment; I may not have much chance of input for a while.
Since this was a while ago, I also want to let you know that I completely get all of what you've said. Oh & once again, no worries, glad to be of any kind of help :) It's not my intention to say the things I do as if that's the final word, because I'm not the one developing Zordak. I can only try to keep up, and leave as much info as possible that I think might be useful. I have to apologise if I give the impression that I expect everything I mention to have a place here. If anything, it's simply because a lot of this stuff is hard to describe in the right way.
Oh & about the whole Hyper Light Drifter thing; If you haven't already looked at anything yet, I could only suggest a few minutes of a couple or so videos, just so you can get an impression of the variety the aesthetic & music has. But aside from that, I will say that while I love the game... I may've almost broke a controller at a couple of points >.> It's kinda hard.
I really hope you're doing well & keeping safe right now :3
I completely agree with you; This kind of thing is best saved until after the main game is assembled, if you decide to do anything along these lines. It's absolutely fine if you feel uncertain whether or not it's worth it, depending on how popular the game will be. I only mention it because as a fan of this, I feel it would be disengenuous to not voice up any concerns.
I could try listing more games with more examples, but to be honest, I think the list I've given says about as much as it's going to say, at least in terms of unlockable rewards. But I think I'd like to add a more general observation about this stuff.
Thinking back to some of my favourite games ever, they were some of the most tightly self-contained single player experiences ever made, because of one reason or another. But above all, just about every one of them have one distinct thing in common; An experience on a dedicated console, without any kind of intention of tying things to the internet. Something that was solely focussed on keeping your hands on that controller (Or keyboard), and immersing you as much as possible. That's what a lot of older consoles have over today's stuff; They don't need the internet to access a single thing in the games. That can benefit the whole thing, right down to how each individual room feels. I still remember actually feeling the cold through most of Metal Gear Solid (psx), but the warm temperature of my room gave me the impression of being in the sneaking suit. Was exactly the same for Phendrana Drifts in Metroid Prime, as well as a lot of Super Metroid (Y'know, the red caverns & that famous music, and the way you go further down through damp tunnels to get to Norfair or Maridia? Or the start of Zebes? Or the corridor that leads you to the Torian Lift? Good stuff!).
But because this isn't for a dedicated, older console; The most recent example I can think of has got to be Hyper Light Drifter, an awesome but brutally hard game on Steam. It's purely concerned with keeping you in the game, exploring everything there is to offer. It has little interest in having people poke around in the gamefiles, doesn't care that YouTube & forums are a thing, and proves that it's still possible to take this kind of approach on today's platforms (Digital distribution, etc). I'd recommend checking it out if you ever have the time. It's well & truly worth it, and the behind-the-scenes story is really interesting.
... Anyway, I know there's not much you can do about the whole internet thing (I mean... Well... Yeah), but I'm hoping you get what I mean about the game being more immersive when it's self-contained. If you get any idea on how to use that principle in your own way, there's no limit to the kind of atmosphere you can create with this. That & it helps the whole 'Keeping the player hooked' angle.
Gotta say, feels kinda good to share that bit of info with a dev. Whether it's any use or not, it's a strong belief I've had for years.
Whoa, you have been busy.
If ever there's time for an updated demo at some point, it'll be interesting to find out how the altered physics feel.
Of course, it's probably best to wait for the final version, since tweaks are probably a thing that has to happen again ^^; Basically, sounds like some solid changes have happened, and that's pretty exciting.
Being a huge fan of Soma, that's some good inspiration to have :3 The only thing I'd be truly concerned for though, if you chose this route, is how longevity the game will have. Once everything's out there on the net, it kinda feels like it's time has passed. I kinda feel that way about most games that have hidden files; It's a collaberative effort that once solved, has had it's day as far as the general public is concerned. As much as I love Soma (Seriously), that game is no exception to this stigma. Speaking as candidly but sincerely as I can on this, I feel this game deserves a much better fate than that. While I have no illusion about the effort & time it takes, I strongly believe that it would benefit greatly from that little bit of extra TLC, to make it as much of a literal 'Single player' experience as possible in this day & age.
Also, I'm not saying you haven't already put TLC into this... Just making that one very clear.
I'd like to offer a few other examples of in-game rewards, since there's a lot of possibilities with this. Lets pretend for just a second that these ideas wouldn't be a whole other workload that would most likely need to be done as an update/expansion, once the main game is finished;
- Metal Gear Solid: There's always been a bit of interactivity with the unlockables in that, ie; Cutscenes are available in the Movie Theatre, in which you can run around as the main character to choose & play whichever cutscene yourself. They also play around with that in MGS: Special Missions (Photo mode), so there's plenty of room with at least the concept.
- Tomb Raider Anniversary: Find secrets & relics, and finish the levels to unlock character bios, art galleries, commentaries, cutscenes, music & miscellaneous extras like this really cool showcase of all the evironments & their assets (Style Units). Once you've finished the levels, beat them in Time Trial to unlock cheats (Complete an entire chapter, unlock 2 at a time). If anything, stuff like that can be good for hammering in just how much work something of this scale needs.
- Mass Effect 1: After getting achievements for completion as one of the classes you can choose at the start (Soldier, Vanguard, Adept, Sentinel, Engineer, Infiltrator), you can play again as a different class, but with all the skills from the previous class now available (Beat the game as a soldier & choose to be an Infiltrator on the second run, all of Soldier's skills & weapons can be used). I know this isn't an RPG, but the principle of this is interesting to think about, and I've never seen another game do anything like this.
- Metroid Prime: Best not forget these! Stuff like artwork gets unlocked simply by scanning stuff & collecting info (25% complete, 1st gallery open, etc). Simple, but entirely worth remembering in this case.
If I think of any other examples, I'll err... I dunno, there's options available.
This is a lot of info for something that's probably not intended to be thought of as much as I am, and I'm well aware that some would be more tricky than others to think of a suitable use for. The point of this is to give you the info for nothing more than brainstorming. Who knows, you might get an idea or two from one of these & put your own little twist on them. It helps things gain identity & stand out just that little bit more. But at the end of the day, it's all up to you & I'm just someone typing walls of text about this stuff ^^;
Though I haven't tried this yet (Looking forward to it when I have the time), I wanted to leave my own 2 cents about the achievements thing.
I think it could be a pretty good & worthwhile idea, but only if there's rewards that you can unlock in-game. It could be anything from a different aesthetic for the suits/guns (So it doesn't cause balancing issues by making stuff overpowered, stat boosts could cause dominant strategy), to extras like an art gallery or even commentaries. It means it could be worth the player's time, instead of just being for bragging rights. There would even be the chance of more people being interested in going for the extra challenges.
Any other ideas I'd have right now would only tie to what I'm suggesting, so it's an uncertain basis to go by. Think I'll just leave it this, and if the idea interests you, I could go into further possibilities if it's going to be of any use to you.
Really hope you're still doing okay, While I'm busy sorting my own issues out, I don't see this kind of thing as unimportant. It's just there's a lot to do. However, I get what you're saying & this isn't about dragging things out in public comments.
If you're okay for now, that's all the better & I'm wholeheartedly rooting for the situation to only improve.
Please just be assured of one thing, for whatever it's worth; I may be scarcely around right now, but I'm not going away.
I am so sorry for going this long without responding. It's not because I've suddenly gotten bored or anything. It's because after struggling through the entire of 2019 to get anywhere with my own work, I finally found a gear & have most certainly made use of that.
If you could hold on for but a while longer, I should be very briefly showing up on Twitter at either the end of febuary or early next month. I just want to get the hurdle I'm dealing with out of the way first.
I know it's still a wait, and if that's simply too long, please let me know & I'll do something about it sooner. I may be in gear with my own stuff, but I want to make sure you're okay as well.
Really glad to see more updates from you, and I will be checking those out soon. But in the meantime, just remember; You hang in there, and I really do have faith in you. You got this.
I just have to bring this up, because it strikes too much of a chord with something I've been working on for over 3 years (And unlike Zordak, I can guarantee it isn't going to be worth the wait).
You're talking to someone with chronic depression & anxiety since a very early age (We're talking Primary/Grade school). Believe me, I know what you mean. Through all the problems I'm dealing with all the time, there are friends out there who have tried all they can to change my mind about this exact topic, and how I feel the exact same way because of the same kind of reasons.
Understandably, they've given up on the moral side of it (They just can't get through to me), and it's up to me to keep going. Or should I say, it's up to us.
I know it's a very cold, dark & spaceous feeling, like being stuck in a giant cavern without a light. But for whatever it's worth, please remember that these depths are your own, and you can use it to some kind of very twisted advantage, no matter how impossible that might seem at times. It's all yours to explore, despite that sounding & feeling like the least appealing deal I could mention. Probably even sounds like the worst part, I know. But as much as it will not seem this way (Seriously), it's a lot more linear than you'd think... Kinda ties back to the whole 'Cavern without a light' thing. It's deceiving because of how much it can make you stagger with where you're going, or even just stop in your tracks & feel completely adrift.
I'm not trying to presume what's inside your head, but I do know what this kind of stuff does to someone. Believe me, I know. I can't offer a fix-all trick, because that doesn't exist. Hopefully I can just give a bit of insight to help you on your way.
Very sorry for the late reply on this, it's been hectic & distracting x.x
Just wanted to say that I have faith in you, and I know I'm not alone in that. The only ones who'd lynch you for not working on it would be the ones who don't understand how much work it takes.
You take as long as you need to get back to this.
Oh yeah, and happy new decade :3
However you tweak things, that's how it'll be. I may be a fan that likes to care, but it's your game. The only way you can make things 1000% how people want is by plugging your brain straight into theirs, so no worries. Feedback & ideas are what they are; Either useful, or for another time.
I guess it's wise to wrap this "little" thread up (>___>), so whenever & however we next talk, either via comments or messages, just know that I have my eye on this, and I'll see if I can help with anything if needed, even if it's just more thoughts on the next build :3
All the best!
I'm sure any kind of smoothing out will be done as things progress. It's stupidly stressful trying to sort everything out in a linear way, especially for something of this scale.
You've been able to tweak one aspect already, so one thing at a time :3
Remember that I'm not saying anything about soundtracks with any particular ideas in mind. It's more of a general thing. Anything (else) more specific, I'll tell you privately.
That being said, I doubt you'd ever need this, but just in case; If for any reason you ever want to contact me & want an answer anytime soon, you can find me on DeviantArt or Patreon (Same username & avatar). I'm not trying to self-advertise or anything, it's just where I'm centered right now ^^;
Think of it this way; When you do start posting videos on Zordak, I'd like to be there to say something better than "Metroid ripoff! Axiom Verge is a thing!". Let's just hope others will have the same idea.
All I can say is it's worth it. No point in trying to stress how someone 'needs' to play one game or another. If you have the time, and you remember, all the better :3
Correct! That's exactly what I'm saying! :D If it's not present right now, at least you know what I mean. It would make a lot of difference if it could be implemented/boosted.
Thank you putting up with me trying to explain this & stumbling about along the way.
I'll use the email if there's any ideas I get with future updates. Any ideas I may put forward, I have no expectation of them making it into the game. But if even an aspect of one of those ideas is of any use, then it's worth it.
That's why it pays to be enthusiastic about something.
While we're on the subject of these games; I would recommend listening to the soundtrack of the first Quake. Very dark stuff. A very good study on how to convey a heavy atmosphere.
The soundtrack for the PSX version of Doom's really good as well. Just not quite as heavy as Quake.
I've subscribed on YouTube, and will be following this as it progresses. You've given me even more faith in this project :3
Good to know it's not too late to say what I've said ^^; Your explanations have gotten me thinking about a lot of stuff in that regard. Glad I got to speak with you about this stuff.
Believe me, that thread isn't worth getting worked up over, so you've got the right idea. I wasn't joking either; That person is in need of help. There's deliberately spreading misinformation, and there's just flailing wildly.
Zordak may have a different opening structure to SM, but you've got the 'Something's gone horribly wrong' vibe down with your tutorial level, and the immediate 'I'm not any safer' feeling with the planet. Details like that dark musical drone really helps, too. I love that kind of stuff.
So the whole of Fusion is set on a space station; The B.S.L. Research Station (Biologic Space Labs). There's also the fact that the enemies of that game are creatures known as the 'X Parasites'. Hopefully you can see where the general reminders comes from with that.
One particular reason I'd recommend looking/playing through Fusion is it's horror aspect. I won't bang on about that, but I offer my word as a Metroid fan since an early age; It's a pretty solid game.
If any of my issues with the movement are because of either my controller or overlooking things in the options, I will happily eat my words on things like the crouching.
I have thought of a better example for what I mean with the jumping aspect, though. Let's make the original Sonic games the example for this; Depending on how fast the character is running, that determines how far a gap they can clear. The faster they go, the further they can jump.
I know the Sonic games didn't inspire anything about this, but the way it feels in Zordak right now, it's the equivelant of getting some decent speed on Sonic, taking the leap forward, but the character has a set velocity for how far & high they can go.
It's also relevant to point out that this kind of kinetic energy is in SM (But none of the other Metroid games after that), so much so that they give you the speed boost to improve it.
Apologies if I'm just droning on about this now. It's just I thought this might be a much better explanation than just "It feels funny".
It's no worries if you don't end up using it, and I'll enjoy the game anyway :3
Haven't paid any real attention to Twitter for a while now. Long story short, got a lot to do right now. But I will take note of this in case anything comes up.
Yep, Doom was the first game I ever played. I kid you not. I was about 5. Quake wasn't until much later, but it still left one hell of an impression.
I really do hope this attempt at explaining what I mean went better this time, and that I'm not just being even more confusing than usual ^^;
Apologies for any points at which my grammar may've stumbled. It was quite late when I finished this comment.
I'll try to clear up anything I might not've explained too well, and just show I fully understand what the deal is. It's good to talk in-depth about this, but I don't want to take up all your time with it. That being said, here's another lengthy comment.
I honestly hadn't thought about that aspect with her attire at the start, and now you've explained that, not only am I completely on board with it, but I also request that the sprite not be changed any further; You've had to work on that enough by the sound of it, but this is an artistic statement. This is your idea, and it's relevant to the game. I take back what I've mentioned about the character model, and would just like to say thank you for reminding me of a time when artistic value wasn't stifled by whining about being offended.
And just for the record; Despite the fact I said anything about it, that wasn't the direction I was coming from. I'm just an oddball is all. But after seeing other people lean so heavily on that one, I feel bad about it. Seriously, I hope I haven't replied too late, and you're not already changing that sprite.
I know this may sound weird, but I immediately recognised the level of love for Super Metroid, the second that cryo tank started counting down. I remember pre-ordering SM when it was on the shelves, and booting it up for the first time. For what it's worth; I think you nailed that same kind of feeling, and getting to play even these first 30 minutes that are subject to change was like experiencing that again.
If you mean the comment/thread I think you mean... You really shouldn't get too worked up about it. That person is badly in need of professional help. It was an argument that no one could win, because he was only interested in antagonising people. I'd call it trolling, but it just turned out to be tragic.
It has occured to me that you're on what's left of your ship for a very short time, and then it's onto Zordak itself. Starting off with Station X is the main reason I went "Oh yeah, Fusion" (Despite the fact you have Ceres Station in SM).
Still, I'd recommend trying to get a copy of that one. It's probably the creepiest in the Metroid series.
Oh & speaking of; Really like the sound of that ominous statement on all the corpses. Sounds like this planet is going to be a bad time in the best ways.
Alright, gameplay stuff;
- Glad I could help confirm any issues with pickups.
- As said, it's easy to get used to the crouching, so if it stays the same, people will just have to pay more attention to the controls.
- I did not spot that option, and how you plan to improve this part will nullify the issues I mention. Good to hear that more animation is on the agenda as well. I know stuff like this takes hours, and don't want to seem demanding & ignorant.
Also, I have no problem with the transition, if you mean between rooms. Didn't even think of that since it's a room transition. That's all fine.
- Here's another attempt with the control fluidity; When doing a running jump, it feels like she's a bit resistant to jumping forward in accordance with how fast she runs. It doesn't break the flow, but it does kind of jolt it. But since you plan to give her more horizontal speed, that should fix it.
As for the crouching, the only thing I could recommend is giving her the ability to crouch while on the move. This does slow down the pacing by just a fraction of a second. However, it pays to remember that Metroid didn't sort out this kind of thing until the Prime games, and even then, you still have to watch her transform into a ball for a second or two. The only game that actually gives you a smooth transition between standing & morph ball is AM2R & possibly Samus Returns.
- Again, glad I could confirm something that's already on the list of fixes.
- Looking forward to whatever changes are made with the audio.
I did think about trying to message you privately about that idea, because that thought had occured as well. Also looked for a way to do so, but nearly as hard as I could've looked. Either way, it's no worries if the ideas not of any use, but if it can be used for anything in the game then all the better :3 I'll say this; If it doesn't show up in the end result, that's fine. But if it does, I assure you I'll go "Ayyy!", then feel a bit smug. Probably.
I'm really glad to hear that response from you on the character front. Again, the choices you've made to convey the story should stay as your decision. After hearing about it, I can safely say it matters that you stick to your guns & don't worry about people choosing to complain because they don't get the point. That's why critics & fans get to rave on about this kind of stuff years after something comes out; It's given time to be deciphered.
Any delay is fine, and I know this is a lot to talk about. My objective with all this is to be helpful & supportive, but I don't want to distract you from making any progress. If it takes a while, it takes a while.
Lastly, you'd be 100% correct on the references! :D However, I will admit to being a bigger fan of Quake, and the starting weapon in the second game happens to also be called the Blaster.
Thank you for taking the time to look through all of this, and I hope that I was able to be clearer on anything that might've been confusing. Please remember; I'm fine with any delayed response, if you feel the need to say anything further. I know exactly what it's like to have this kind of workload.
Best of luck with moving forward.
After checking out a video for this (Alpha Beta Gamer on YouTube), I've downloaded the demo & played through it. I have many things to say.
TL;DR? Some rough patches here & there, but this game is good. Very, very good.
I will freely admit; My initial thoughts from the video, while still highly positive, did have some very minor nitpicking that I've honestly thought about, and have changed my stance on.
I'll get that out of the way first; I mentioned in the video's comments that I didn't care too much for the animations at the start; Her running seemed a bit too dainty, and you've probably heard a bunch of comments about physics on her chest, so I'll just say I only made a passing remark about that since it's fixed when you find the suit, anyway (In that incredibly Dead Space moment that made me nerd out so hard, it almost hurt).
But after playing it & seeing all the effects in practice, I think I get what you're going for. I know this isn't Samus Aran, and honestly, small details like the spiky hair & post-cryo getup that you see frequently in sci-fi, it honestly feels like a nice homage towards either 80's/90's sci-fi horror films & anime combined. It's good stuff, and even if I still had a problem with it, it has no impact on the gameplay whatsoever.
Basically, I hope you don't get pressured into changing this aspect. If anything is changed, I hope it's under your terms & not because of complaints.
I absolutely love the tone you've gone for with Zordak. It's like Super Metroid combined with Fusion, with many of your own ideas & bits of inspiration from various other things here & there. I will say this; From all the bodies & gore lying around, I'm expecting to see some horrific stuff later.
Seriously, I've already got the feeling you're fooling us into thinking this is just some kind of Metroid clone, then pulling the rug out from under us. In the comment I mentioned, I actually used the words 'Metroid clone'. Honestly wish I hadn't.
This looks to be much darker than Metroid. Really looking forward to keeping my eye on it, and seeing what you come up with.
There is some stuff I would like to address though:
- Item pickups; The frequency of enemies dropping items is just a bit too scarce. I died on the first attempt with the boss while trying to work out all the patterns. The problem wasn't so much getting hit too many times, but rather those creatures swooping down from the ceiling gave me next to nothing. That was the only genuinely frustrating moment I had throughout the whole thing. I even noticed this when finding those same creatures spawning out pipes, like in Super Metroid.
- Crouching; I see you've already gotten some feedback about the crouch animation, so I'll just say that her height felt a bit finicky while trying to aim at first, but it's easy to quickly get used to. I may've mentioned it, but I'm not going to demand you change that, since crouch walking is a mechanic in this game. But if there's anything you can think of to improve it, all the better.
- Jumping; It could just be my controller, but the jumping can feel a tad restrictive, especially when it's off of walls. I just expected to go a bit further is all. Those moments where you have to grab ledges can be a bit too awkward because you have to jump straight up then go left/right. I'm gathering this is intentional for the sake of the level design, but it did throw me off a bit when I pressed right to jump across & instead let go of the platform.
It almost feels like the character's missing an animation where she hoists herself off the ledge to jump across. But since that would require you to make additions to that mechanic or even re-work it, I don't want to make it sound like a total deal-breaker. It's just that it stood out to me.
- Control fluidity; For the most part, I had no problems & really like the momentum you build up when running forward. But there one or two points where I had to momentarily struggle with the controls to get her to either crouch or jump. Again, it could be my controller, but I mention it in case it's something more.
- Collision detection when shooting; Overall it's fine, but I have noticed that if your're right up against a wall & try to fire at something directly above you, the shot has a habit of hitting the wall instead.
- Gun sounds; Nothing more than personal preference, and I know it's only the first gun, but for an energy weapon, the sound is a more of a pop than any kind of pew-pew. I don't think it needs to be a different sound. Maybe just take the existing one you've made, and mess about with one or two filters. The charge-up sound is absolutely fine. Would be interesting to see if there's any difference when you get other energy types.
Aside from these points, I enjoyed the hell out of this & will be having a second or even third run-through at some point.
I also have a couple of ideas I want to send your way, in hopes they might be good for even a foundation of an idea you might be working on; It's about a possible morph ball mechanic.
- So I've seen a few comments already along the lines of 'If she turns into a ball, you'll get a call from Nintendo'. So if you do decide to make some kind of mechanic around that, how about this?
Give the character the ability to change into a thick fluid of some kind, or at least some sort of liquid mass that stays together & can move around freely. This means you could make use of the water mechanics you've already got in place, creating some intersting puzzles & shortcuts that involve you having to slosh around through pipes & tight spaces.
It could also be a serious 'What the hell just happened' moment for the player; Boss fight occurs, boss is defeated but strikes the character before dying, character melts & looks like she dies, then after a couple of seconds, the mass she melts into starts twitching & moving, then recomposes herself back into human form, then you get informed you've aquired whatever the name of this ability could be... That should help people see this isn't a mere Metroid clone.
- This one's a lot simpler & in all honesty, not really important in any way. I've also seen remarks about the character being a girl that isn't Samus. Unless it affects the story in any major way, maybe consider letting the player select either a male or female character.
In all honesty, I kind of hope we're just told that we get what we're given. It shouldn't make any difference who the protagonist is or what they look like. But you know the internet; Always itching to complain about something.
It's only something I've noticed, and as far as I'm concerned, you gotta change nothing in this department. But if it's something you wish to work on at some stage, then there ya go. At the very least, you could try the Resident Evil 2 deal; 2 protagonists, 2 stories running parallel to one another. Entirely your choice.
I understand this is a lot of feedback in one go, but I wanted to give all my thoughts on this & hopefully play my part in helping this shape up even further. Super Metroid has easily been one of my favourite games ever made, ever since it first came out.
Zordak is obviously Metroid inspired, but with the lighting & fog & overall tone you've set with the amazingly dark ambience, the previous violence on display with all the dead bodies, blood & gore, and the way the enemies look familiar then surprise you by hurling themselves at you like they do... Thank you for making this. This is way more than a clone, and you might be able to guess I'm somewhat keen to see what the end result will be.
Oh & just one other thing; The arm cannon's called a 'Blaster'? Charged shots deal 'Quad damage'?... I see what you did there, and it's just the best >w>